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  1. Error: Unable to create directory uploads/2014/08. Is its parent directory writable by the server?
    January 30, 2011

    As a Christian, does it matter to you that Jesus said not a word about homosexuality?

    How about the fact that the Old Testament says eating shellfish, wearing mixed garments, and other ubiquitous behaviors nowadays are also sins?

    • January 30, 2011

      Jesus doesn't use the word, but he does define marriage as between one man and one woman. At no point does Jesus attempt to make a list of all sins and leave out things that aren't sins. If He did and left out homosexuality it would be compelling – but like I said – He never does that.

      The OT has cleanliness laws that were temporary (like the ones you listed). Homosexuality was not listed among them but among things that are always sinful. And of course the NT speaks clearly on the issue too.

      Hope that gives some clarity.

      • January 30, 2011

        Scott, in your first statement you question a Christian putting weight on anything but Jesus’ words.
        In your second statement you question why a Christian wouldn’t follow what the OT says.
        That is a poor argument, and to be honest, a little funny.
        Anyway, Paul, excellent choice for #1.

    • September 24, 2013

      St Paul condemns homosexuality in the opening chapter of the Book of Romans:

      “In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27)

  2. January 30, 2011

    When discussing Ephesians 5, which can be ‘troublesome’ for some folk, I like to quote starting at verse 21.

    (esv) … submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.

    There is obviously more context but this space is limited. Paul has exhorted everyone in the church to submit to each other. If I may sum up what he says,
    Submit to everyone.
    Wives submit to your husband.
    Husband, treat your wife like Jesus treats the Church; He died for her and raised her up to his level, not pushed her down, and he made her (the Church) his co-labourer with him, not a slave. I could go into more detail but iPod typing is not conducive to coherent arguments.

  3. Error: Unable to create directory uploads/2014/08. Is its parent directory writable by the server?
    January 31, 2011

    "Temporary sins"? Wow–first time I've heard that one.

    • January 31, 2011

      What I'm explaining isn't new. The OT has 3 types of laws: Moral, Civil, and ceremonial. The only kind that applies to Christians are moral laws. God's moral rules don't change. But civil laws are different because Christians aren't a nation like Israel. And the church discontinued many of the ceremonies of Judaism, so we don't follow the ceremonial laws. But laws on sexual purity for example are listed among the moral laws. Good topic for you to study if this is new and interesting to you.

      Now there are some extremists who want theocracy and for us to follow the civil laws of the OT. But they are an extreme minority. Those are the folks who want to stone homosexuals for example. I reject such ideas. Islam believes in having Civil law based on the Koran, and the results of Sharia have been horrid.

      • Error: Unable to create directory uploads/2014/08. Is its parent directory writable by the server?
        January 31, 2011

        "The OT has 3 types of laws: Moral, Civil, and ceremonial. The only kind that applies to Christians are moral laws… But civil laws are different because Christians aren't a nation like Israel… Now there are some extremists who want theocracy and for us to follow the civil laws of the OT… I reject such ideas."

        Well that's funny, because based on the passage below from your post, you seem to be arguing against gay marriage on the basis that… allowing it is a sin.

        "Today it has been cool for Christians to ignore the homosexual issue and even be pro gay marriage. The problem is that it is a grievous sin to support anyone doing anything against God’s will."

        I realize that you and others against gay marriage have come up with secular reasons to reject it, but the fact that you opposed it in your piece due to its sinful nature suggests you are not totally antithetical to the idea of civil laws being instituted in the U.S. based on the Bible.

        • February 1, 2011

          I guess I'm not being clear. Homosexuality is a moral sin – it isn't ceremonial or civil. It is a moral issue. It is the civil law of death to homosexuals is one that no longer applies. But homosexuality is still sin based on the eternal moral law of God.

          And as a Christian it is sinful for me to support and promote any moral sin. I am bound by that. And I am bound to stand against killing homosexuals simply based on their sexual choices too.

          That shouldn't be shocking. All people are bound by their own moral compass. And yes, my moral compass is determined by the creator of the universe. I wish all would use that moral compass, but obviously most don't. But it is appropriate for me to stand against gay marriage for that reason alone. But, as you mentioned, there are secular reasons to stand against it too.

          • January 26, 2012

            You said, "Homosexuality is a moral sin" Well it is for you and those like you who are bound to be non-thinking slaves for your cult.

            • October 29, 2012

              Ah the irksome relativism. If we deny moral absolutes we also deny true faith in anything we hold to be “true”. You see if I say that unnatural sexual relations are good for my neighbor yet bad for me what I’m really saying is I believe it can be right for him or her since they are under different circumstances. Now what happens when you inherit the circumstance of those people you excused teaching your sons and daughters their unnatural ways? Is it now also right for your children, or your children’s children?? Do you even find it bad at all anymore? And if that depravity finds its way into people as in the above example, what other corruption is being propagated? Rather lets appreciate moral absolutes, believing with all of our hearts those things we hold to be true. This isn’t a cult, this is your life. Cast off the deceptive apparatus and seek truth, no matter what the cost.

  4. January 31, 2011

    It's common for neo-Darwinists like Richard Dawkins to call God all sorts of nasty names based on what Dawkins reads in the Old Testament. However, could it not be said that much of the guidelines/laws laid down in the OT can be understood by neo-Darwinists as genetically advantageous?

    I suggest that you could read 'The Moral Animal' by Robert Wright for example, or any of Dawkins' books, then go to the OT and you'd think, 'Ah yes, I see why that is going to benefit the nation of Israel, genetically speaking.'

    Marriage? All through the neo-Darwinistic literature, it's acknowledged that one of the difficulties facing a male is that he cannot be sure that the offspring he is raising with a female is actually his. What a waste of resources – what a genetic betrayal – if he spends his life, uses his knowledge, spends all his resources, bringing up someone else's child, which naturally will carry another's genes. According to neo-Darwinism, this is a huge problem facing any male wanting to have his genes carried into the next generation. But marriage solves this problem very nicely. Same with homosexuality – that's no way to have your genes carried into the next generation. That road leads to a genetic dead end. That's fairly obvious. I think that a lot of what 'new atheists' believe ties in beautifully with the Old Testament, and so they are in no position at all to criticise it.

  5. January 31, 2011

    I would suggest an article to Scott called Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage, wriitten by Gary DeMar, published July 6, 2010. Shellfish Logic is a poor defense of homosexual marriage.

  6. February 1, 2011

    I think a lot of people get hung up on 'homosexuality is a lifestyle choice'.
    They counter with 'it's not a lifestyle choice I'm wired to be gay'.

    A better way to express this Christian concept:
    We're all attracted to sin. A few of use are attracted to homosexuality. A few to drunkeness or adultery. A few to violence or theft.
    Just because we're attracted to these things doesn't magically make them right and good.

    Paul struggeled with an unnamed sin (some guess it was coveting) "why do I do what I do what I don't want to do?" There was only one man who lived without sin: Jesus. Not Adam. Not Mohammed. Not Joseph Smith. Liberals reject this notion: that we're sinners in need of personal redemption.
    Instead they substitute social justice and group redemption. And their substituion ends up standing Christianity on it's head.

    Jesus said: "Go and sin no more"

  7. February 5, 2011

    Paul,
    I applaud your patience with some of the provocative comments on this topic. I appreciated your thoughtful responses and I'm adding you to my newsfeed.
    -RN

  8. July 2, 2012

    You seem so hateful and self-righteous. The bible is open to interpretation, and you use whatever interpretation matches with your own opinions to try and make YOURSELF seem holier than thou. You pick and choose verses that benefit your arguments (whatever they may be). You are NOT God, and you cannot possibly claim to know exactly what the prose in it truly means.

    It’s people like you that push people, in general, away from Christianity, with your hateful natures, judgmental attitudes, and self-righteous/self-fulfilling delusional mentalities. You should be communicating love; we are all God’s children (but you act like you’re His favorite) and we are all born of his will and in his reflection; you have absolutely no right or privilege (would probably be the more fitting term) to talk down to others and tell them they’re going to hell.

    I think deep down if you really search your heart, you will find that God doesn’t intend for us to be hateful and hurtful towards one another.

    As far as homosexuality and bisexuality: I know that the Bible says something about marriage being between a man and a woman. It ALSO says a bunch of other stuff you (and people like you: religious zealots/fundamentalists) choose to ignore; i.e., have you sent your menstruating friends off to sleep in huts for a week?

    You claim this and that is ‘Evil’, but those are your own interpretations that you choose to point out because they’re advantageous to your various arguments. The bible doesn’t necessarily mean it is a work of LITERAL history, but it might (brace yourself here) be figurative forms of parables/metaphors/similes/hyperboles for us to take lessons from, not to interpret as literal word-for-word directions.

    Please enlighten me as to what these passages/texts mean:

    Deut. 23:1

    “No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God.”

    Leviticus 19: 17-18

    “Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke [reason with] thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.”

    ‘Traditional marriage’ in the Bible includes polygamy.

    Leviticus, the book of the Bible which stipulates death for homosexuality, requires the same punishment for adultery, pre-marital sex, disobedient children and blasphemy.

    Death by stoning of non-virgin brides [Deu 22:13-21]

    Both participants in an act of adultery [Deu. 22:22] and some instances of premarital intercourse [Deu. 22:23]

    The punishment for blasphemy is death by stoning [Lev 24:16].

    A child who curses their parent will be put to death [Lev 20:9].

    Locusts, beetles and grasshoppers are permissible food [Lev. 11:21] but not shellfish or mollusks [Lev. 11:10].

    Jesus is quoted as saying (in Matthew):

    22:37 …Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

    22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    And in John 13:34, he is additionally quoted as saying:

    13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

    13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    “A bitched shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.” (Deuteronomy 23:2) [a bitched refers to someone who is born out of wedlock]

    “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched.” (Mark 9:43)

    1 Timothy 2:11-14

    “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. ”

    1 Corinthians 14:34-35

    “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”

    Matthew 6:5-7 “”And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”

    Genesis 9.4-5

    But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it.”

    “It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood. (Leviticus 3.17). . . And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of strangers who sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set My face against that soul that eateth blood.” (Leviticus 17.10)

    Leviticus 25:44-45

    “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.”

    Leviticus 19:19

    “…do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material.”

    Leviticus 25:36, Deuteronomy 23:19, Psalms 15:5 and Luke 6:35 prohibit interest payments on loans; only living entities can grow; since money isn’t alive, it must remain fixed in size.

    I’ll end with “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, which I’m sure will not be the end of it.

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