Comments on: From the Pen of David Horowitz: December 16, 2009 http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/ Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:34:39 +0000 hourly 1 By: truthteller http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/#comment-35077 truthteller Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:07:07 +0000 http://newsrealblog.com/?p=18891#comment-35077 I guesss Horowitz has never heard of Clarence Thomas. Why not tell the truth? I guesss Horowitz has never heard of Clarence Thomas. Why not tell the truth?

]]> By: therealend http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/#comment-33899 therealend Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:00:11 +0000 http://newsrealblog.com/?p=18891#comment-33899 I have to say that is a well thought out analysis. I have to say that is a well thought out analysis.

]]> By: therealend http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/#comment-33886 therealend Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:23:19 +0000 http://newsrealblog.com/?p=18891#comment-33886 You mean the people I named in my comment? Is something troubling you about that, Walter? You mean the people I named in my comment? Is something troubling you about that, Walter?

]]> By: Russ Webster http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/#comment-33862 Russ Webster Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:02:59 +0000 http://newsrealblog.com/?p=18891#comment-33862 The main argument is that affirmative action policies have not helped Blacks, and that Blacks’ advancements since affirmative action has been due to their working hard. However, I do not see any direct evidence that supports this position given the data presented. Indeed, I do not see support for either side of the argument. This article reports that there was a decrease in Blacks living in poverty from 1940 to 1960 by about 40% (which is congruent with the Great Migration of Blacks to urban centers during Hoover's and Roosevelt's administrations and the dramatic increases in the standard of living for all working adults because of the War and the New Deal), then another drop in the % of Blacks in poverty, albeit smaller, from 1960 to 1995 of 19%. We see similar trends for Blacks obtaining middle class positions and enrollment in college. Yet just because there are ostensibly smaller gains for Blacks after affirmative action policies were implemented does not mean affirmative action did not work or that it did work. Moreover, the authors did not set any criteria for which they consider affirmative action to have succeeded or not. Further, these are only percentages, for Blacks, without other considerations. We have no other data presented, for example, about the relative number of Blacks in the population during these years and the number of jobs open during these times. Take, for example, if we have steady number of Blacks in the population, but a lower number of jobs open, %s are of course going to decrease. We also have no comparison numbers for Whites to see, for example, whether Blacks’ advances parallel Whites’ advances. I would also like to see data regarding income as well as employment. There is also the issue of how affirmative action is being implemented; there may be work policies, but not all people adhere to them. Indeed, only in an experimental context in which affirmative action policies are manipulated (i.e., compare hiring rates of minorities at institutions/businesses that do and do not enforce affirmative action policies) and other relevant factors are statistically controlled for can we have a more complete picture about whether affirmative action is beneficial for Blacks. We also first have to have agreement about the criteria for which we judge whether affirmative action has succeeded or not. The main argument is that affirmative action policies have not helped Blacks, and that Blacks’ advancements since affirmative action has been due to their working hard. However, I do not see any direct evidence that supports this position given the data presented. Indeed, I do not see support for either side of the argument.

This article reports that there was a decrease in Blacks living in poverty from 1940 to 1960 by about 40% (which is congruent with the Great Migration of Blacks to urban centers during Hoover’s and Roosevelt’s administrations and the dramatic increases in the standard of living for all working adults because of the War and the New Deal), then another drop in the % of Blacks in poverty, albeit smaller, from 1960 to 1995 of 19%. We see similar trends for Blacks obtaining middle class positions and enrollment in college.

Yet just because there are ostensibly smaller gains for Blacks after affirmative action policies were implemented does not mean affirmative action did not work or that it did work. Moreover, the authors did not set any criteria for which they consider affirmative action to have succeeded or not.

Further, these are only percentages, for Blacks, without other considerations. We have no other data presented, for example, about the relative number of Blacks in the population during these years and the number of jobs open during these times. Take, for example, if we have steady number of Blacks in the population, but a lower number of jobs open, %s are of course going to decrease. We also have no comparison numbers for Whites to see, for example, whether Blacks’ advances parallel Whites’ advances. I would also like to see data regarding income as well as employment. There is also the issue of how affirmative action is being implemented; there may be work policies, but not all people adhere to them.

Indeed, only in an experimental context in which affirmative action policies are manipulated (i.e., compare hiring rates of minorities at institutions/businesses that do and do not enforce affirmative action policies) and other relevant factors are statistically controlled for can we have a more complete picture about whether affirmative action is beneficial for Blacks. We also first have to have agreement about the criteria for which we judge whether affirmative action has succeeded or not.

]]> By: Walt http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/#comment-33842 Walt Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:06:17 +0000 http://newsrealblog.com/?p=18891#comment-33842 "The authors cite a statement made in 1996 by Atlanta’s black mayor articulating the view implicit in the position of Clinton and Jackson that every black person in America “has benefited from affirmative action. There’s not been anybody who’s gotten a job on their own, no one who’s prospered as a businessman or businesswoman on their own …” You should ask the people quoted about that. “The authors cite a statement made in 1996 by Atlanta’s black mayor articulating the view implicit in the position of Clinton and Jackson that every black person in America “has benefited from affirmative action. There’s not been anybody who’s gotten a job on their own, no one who’s prospered as a businessman or businesswoman on their own …”

You should ask the people quoted about that.

]]> By: jbtrevor http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/#comment-33835 jbtrevor Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:32:25 +0000 http://newsrealblog.com/?p=18891#comment-33835 "The key facts are these" - LOL Why would the Left let the facts get in the way of a good social program that lines their pockets while claiming to help the "poor" “The key facts are these” – LOL
Why would the Left let the facts get in the way of a good social program that lines their pockets while claiming to help the “poor”

]]> By: Cas Balicki http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/#comment-33813 Cas Balicki Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:39:46 +0000 http://newsrealblog.com/?p=18891#comment-33813 The reality is that in a democracy the government can do nothing unless the people first decide what is to be done. What that means is that the society is always well on the road to change before some jerk politician decides to run out in front of the parade and pretend to lead. The reality is that in a democracy the government can do nothing unless the people first decide what is to be done. What that means is that the society is always well on the road to change before some jerk politician decides to run out in front of the parade and pretend to lead.

]]> By: therealend http://www.newsrealblog.com/2009/12/16/from-the-pen-of-david-horowitz-december-16-2009/#comment-33811 therealend Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:17:27 +0000 http://newsrealblog.com/?p=18891#comment-33811 From Article: The authors cite a statement made in 1996 by Atlanta’s black mayor articulating the view implicit in the position of Clinton and Jackson that every black person in America “has benefited from affirmative action. There’s not been anybody who’s gotten a job on their own, no one who’s prospered as a businessman or businesswoman on their own …” ----------------------- Michael Jordan, Reggie Jackson, Shirley Chisolm, Oprah, MLK Jr, to name a few would have all failed without someone else's help? Really? That's very interesting! From Article: The authors cite a statement made in 1996 by Atlanta’s black mayor articulating the view implicit in the position of Clinton and Jackson that every black person in America “has benefited from affirmative action. There’s not been anybody who’s gotten a job on their own, no one who’s prospered as a businessman or businesswoman on their own …”
———————–
Michael Jordan, Reggie Jackson, Shirley Chisolm, Oprah, MLK Jr, to name a few would have all failed without someone else’s help? Really? That’s very interesting!

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