Chris Matthews: Waterboard SEALs, Not Terrorists
As predicted, Chris Matthews could hardly contain himself reacting to former Vice President Dick Cheney, (or Chee-neey, as Matthew peculiarly insists on over-emphasizing with the relish pretentious liberals used to affect when saying “Nee-ah-rrrah-wah†during arguments over the Contras and the Sandinistas).
Cheney’s blockbuster interview on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace had all the usual suspects screaming in outrage Monday, with Matthews’ reaction particularly self-revealing, thanks to former California Congressman Duncan Hunter.
There was plenty of the usual blather about how we should be above this, misapplications of the Geneva Conventions, whether it works, and the like (issues we will cover in the future). Matthews and Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman-Schultz were particularly outraged that the interrogators had talked meanly to the terrorists, using sound effects and threats to family members whom the U.S. isn’t even holding.
But Duncan Hunter finally hit Matthews with something I’ve been shouting at the screen for months.
HUNTER: Yes, the Geneva—the Geneva Convention, first, if you look at the—the Geneva Convention was analyzed by the lawyers in place, and they came to the conclusion, especially about water-boarding, because that‘s the primary thing, that, since we do it to our own soldiers, by the hundreds, incidentally, and it doesn‘t hurt them, and they—and it makes them tougher, and it doesn‘t hurt anybody—Khalid Shaikh Mohammed gained weight after he was water-boarded—we decided that, since we do that to our own soldiers in training…
MATTHEWS:Â Yes.
HUNTER: … we‘re not going to consider that torture.
Now—now, the question for liberals is, if you consider—consider that torture…
MATTHEWS: You know why we did that, though. I want to go on to the congresswoman.
HUNTER:Â But wait just a second.
MATTHEWS: OK. Well, look, you know why we did…
HUNTER:Â If you consider that torture…
MATTHEWS: Well, you‘re not putting the… You‘re not being honest here, Congressman.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNTER:Â … then are we torturing our own soldiers?
MATTHEWS: We did that because the Chicoms—because the Chinese communists were doing it in Korea, so we did it to prepare our guys, G.I.s, in case they got picked up. You didn‘t give the context.
HUNTER: So, what‘s wrong with that? So, what‘s wrong with that?
MATTHEWS: Well, you never explained why we‘re doing it. Because we believed the enemy was torturing out prisoners.
HUNTER:Â Baloney.
MATTHEWS: And we wanted to prepare them to be tortured. We didn‘t do it as part of their training. We said, this is what happens if you‘re…
HUNTER: Korea has been over for a—well, you‘re wrong about that, Chris.
Mr.—Senator Levin was very—I‘m sure, very shocked when he saw that we do it with our own folks. But the point is, if we do it, are we torturing American soldiers? You have to answer yes if you consider water-boarding to be torture.
Are we torturing our own soldiers? Answer the question.
MATTHEWS: We‘re preparing them to face torture.
HUNTER: No, we water-board them. We don‘t prepare them for water-boarding. We water-board them. Are we torturing our own soldiers?
MATTHEWS: Look, you‘re getting into a game here. Do you think it’s within the bounds of the Geneva Convention…
HUNTER: Well, that’s not a game. That’s a—that‘s a reasonable question.
Later, Hunter again tried to get out of Matthews and Wasserman-Shultz why they were outraged at waterboarding KSM, but not Special Forces and Air Force personnel.
HUNTER: So, the—so—OK. So, Debbie, so, Debbie, so the—so the—so the American SEALs torture…
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: We should not—we should not be spiraling ever downward.
HUNTER:Â So, the American SEALs torture themselves, the Air Force tortures itself, according to your definition that water-boarding is torture.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: That‘s not torture. That’s preparing… Give me a break.
HUNTER:Â And there’s no problem with Israel doing very enhanced methods of interrogation.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: That‘s preparing our troops.
MATTHEWS: OK. Congressman…
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ:Â That’s preparing our troops.
MATTHEWS: … even the most normal intelligence could help you with this. I don’t know why you‘re not applying it, because you have it.
MATTHEWS: Obviously, the service people know they’re in training. They’re not going to be killed.
HUNTER:Â Well…
MATTHEWS:Â That captured person who is one of our enemy has no idea what we’re doing…
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ:Â They’re getting ready for what they might be subjected to in other countries.
MATTHEWS:Â … when we submit him to water torture.
HUNTER: So, we scared—so, Chris—Chris, use your common sense.
MATTHEWS: So, don‘t tell me it‘s the same thing.
HUNTER: We scared Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. We scared him, but we didn’t hurt him. We scared him. And he gave up three—three potential terrorist plots, and you don’t think it’s worth it.
I’ve talked to several  former Air Force or Special Forces friends who have undergone waterboarding—or worse– as part of their training. All agree and repeat Hunter’s “Baloney†retort.
First, in what is called SERE training, waterboarding is not carried out in a clinical setting.  It is generally in the field, with a simulated escape and capture. The “prisoners†are knocked around and treated roughly in a way that would have Matthews and Wasserman-Shultz screaming for a trial at the Hague.
Second, as every former participant has told me, it doesn’t matter what one’s mind thinks it knows in that situation, one’s body thinks it is drowning, and it is momentarily terrifying.
Third, waterboarding soldiers and airmen is not conducted to train them to resist such methods indefinitely—or In Matthews’ ridiculously vague assertion “prepare†them—for what?.
They are waterboarded, among other things,  to show them that even in simulated circumstances, resistance is futile. That anyone can be broken eventually. That is why tactics, codes, and the like are changed when someone who knows them is captured. A well-trained captured soldier/airman/operator’s job is to resist in the short term, then give out tactical information as slowly as they can stand to do so, given the circumstances, so that hopefully by the time the enemy extracts it, it is useless. Futhermore, a captured American needs to stay psychologically healthy for the rest of  his captivity after he is made to talk. Being waterboarded in SERE training, prepares for that, too, by removing the guilt associated by having broken to at least some extent.
Unanimously—and enthusiastically, for that matter—every one of these men endorses the waterboarding of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. The only reservation I’ve heard from these men is the question of why only 3 captured terrorists have been waterboarded so far.
Leftists’ hysteria on this issue shows their unseriousness about protecting American lives. In the last year, the only “terrorist†threat Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann have gotten excited about is this guy:
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In Defense Of – Me
David,
Another incredible post. Keep up the good work. Also, I have watched a lot of documentaries and read a lot of books about special forces training and specifically about SEAL training. You couldn’t be more right about the training. I don’t think a single SEAL would call that torture…actually it wouldn’t surprise me if some of them even thought it was a good time. Personally I wouldn’t think it would even compare to a hostage rescue excercise with live ammunition where each member of the team plays the hostage and live ammo is fired all around their heads.
I haven’t watched Chris Matthews in years, but I do see bits of him here and there and wonder what on earth happened to him in the past 10 years.
There was a time he was watchable. He was capable of a discussion with someone he disagreed with.
This is no longer true. The man’s extremism renders him almost moronic. I expect his former mentor wouldn’t even recognize the depths to which he has sunk. Nor would he excuse them.
There was no simulation for Mary Jo Kopechne, there was no walking away from it for her like there were for these men, Mary Jo was an innocent human being. Chris Matthews and those like him express outrage over the treatment of these evil-doers but they’ll glorify Ted Kennedy.
Thanks, Brent, you’re too kind. I’ve been yelling back at these idiots on TV for years, now I get to do it in public.
I’ve always maintained that when the WW2 generation was gone we would be in trouble because in today’s world the definition of a man and what his role is in the world seems to have been lost. When you see cowards like Chris Matthews in action my point becomes all too clear. The notion spouted by the left that all violence is bad may help to explain away their own cowardice but is far removed from the real world. Violence is neither good nor bad. It is just violence. Sometimes it’s necessary. Islamic culture is rooted in violence. This is a fact. The terrorists who are spawned by this culture understand only one thing and that is violence.
My grandfather fought against the Japanese in the South Pacific during WW2. In his day all this crying about water boarding would be unheard of and anyone who advocated the prosecution of Americans for doing their job in defense of this country would have a major can of “whoopass”served up .
Geneva Convention my ass anybody remember Vietnam NVA tortured everyone. I do to well Matthews wimped his way to the peace core.
Besides, the Geneva Convention said you could shoot un-uniformed combatants on sight. Forget the WWII generation, Chris Matthews has never seen a WWII MOVIE.
The Geneva Conv. rules on uniforms (and everything else) is ignored by KSM and associates both in identifying themselves and esp. their enemies.
KSM and his associates didn’t kill American soldiers in uniform on 9/11 they killed Americans…we all wear that “uniform” – called freedom.
I don’t know why Mr. Hunter or anyone with half a brain would bother with a pathetic sole like Matthews…I couldn’t watch the entire clip – it’s the “skin crawl factor”
JBT
Glenn Beck probably has an entire chapter on Chris Matthews in his new book about arguing with IDIOTS. My husband has a favorite saying, “You can’t teach a pig to sing” It frustrates you and irritates the pig. There you have it….the saga of Chris Matthews (he’s the “pig” of course…and we’ll not be able to teach him to sing a different song. Let him be….he’s killing himself….Fox and other news outlets are running rings around him. Soon he will be totally neutered. My favorite part of this site was the video of the town hall meeting….Americans standing up all over the country to take back their Republic. I’m meeting my sister in Dallas for the tea party there…then on to Washington D.C. for the big one on 9/12. Hopefully we’ll “come back alive”…..I’ve decided to do as Glenn Beck says – “question!!, speak boldly, and DON’T HAVE ANY FEAR! Must confess – that’s the hard part…but we’re going anyway!!! I’ve stood at the base of the Concord Bridge, visited the crossing of the Delaware River sight and saw the area where Washington and his decimated troops withstood the winter at Valley Forge….think I can fly in an air conditioned plane to Washington D.C. , march and hold up my sign!!! Come join us….it is going to be glorious!!!
Thomas Sowell had an excellent article on TownHall.com yesterday, “Suicide of the West?”. In it he says “Those who are pushing for legal action against CIA agents may talk about “upholding the law” but they are doing no such thing. Neither the Constitution of the United States nor the Geneva Convention gives rights to terrorists who operate outside the law. ” The Geneva Convention is not even applicable in the case of these terrorists being waterboarded!!
Chris Matthews and this congresswoman need to read the Consitution of the USA and the Geneva Convention! As does AG Eric Holder!!
Great Post!!!!!!!!! Like many others here, I have been saying the same thing. Love the townhall meeting.
Then why in the heck doesn’t someone stop this idiot? Why is this president allowing this to happen? Does he hate America so much that he would go after the men and women that put there lives on the line to protect America? CAN SOMEONE SAY WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM?
Shame on you – your C. Mathews comments are disrespectful to pigs -
He’s a Marxist sock puppet, way in over his head in all matters of running anything, even an ice cream truck. The sorriest excuse for a POTUS in the history of this country. He can go back to Kenya and take those two talkinghead, reality-impaired idiots with him. And the sooner the better. Lets see how they’ll be treated over there.