Obama Wants to Let Those Pesky Geezers Die
In a rare moment of candor, Barack Obama explained to an audience how government-run healthcare would work in America.
According to the Los Angeles Times:
President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and don’t stand to gain from the extra care.
In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they don’t unthinkingly approve “additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care.”
He added: “Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.”
Obama said he has personal familiarity with such a dilemma. His grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given less than nine months to live, he said.
She fell and broke her hip, “and the question was, does she get hip replacement surgery, even though she was fragile enough they were not sure how long she would last?” [...]
So, old people: screw you. In the future Uncle Sam will put you on an ice floe and let you float away to your heavenly reward. It gives new meaning to the Latin phrase “Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.” (In English, “How sweet and glorious it is to die for one’s country.”)
Medical decisions should be made by patients, their families, and their doctors, not by government bureaucrats, but that’s ObamaCare for you. And in this regard, its pitfalls will be no different from those encountered by other nations with socialized medicine.
Our Army Drill Sargent put the noble aspect of dying for your country in this perspective;
“It’s more noble to make the other guy die for his country”.
Even sweeter! So, just who do you respect more?
So, old people: screw you…the insurance industry says that all the time. Poor people too. People with preexisting conditions too.
The cost of health care during one’s last year is often more than it is for an entire life time. This is increasingly the case everywhere. Socialist or not. It is an issue that all systems have to deal with.
Meanwhile the US has a third world infant mortality rate…a shocking outrage.
Meanwhile 18000 people die every year due to lack of coverage. Unacceptable.
Ridiculous! you are inventing your own reality and ignoring what’s in front of your nose!!!!!
You are like the stuffy academics who say “well…it works in practice…but does it work in theory?”
Hey, Devil’s Advocate,
Nice try, except a simple google will show that our infant mortality rate is in the top percent of the nations – not third world status as you state. Perhaps you just looked at the flags in wikipedia’s list of countries and the mortality rates?? Liberia, which ranks third worst, looks like the American flag, except that it only has one star.
I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt…
And anyone can still get care in this country, whether they’re insured or not. Most times, it’s applied to medicare, or a social service that picks up the tab. The health care “crisis” is what’s ridiculous, and is the invented reality.
Nice try though!
nope its per 1000 live births.
what else you got?
Here’s a map to give a visual. We are not “third world status” for infant mortality, ranking 29 – 41st (from the “best”), depending on the source for the data. This is out of 223 countries (give or take, depending on who did the counting — some stats leave off some countries for some reason). Anyhow, all I’m saying is we don’t rate “with third world nations”, as you state. While our rates are terrible compared to the rest of “modern” countries, the over-all is not “third -world”, and to state so is disengenuous and outside of the raw statisitics. It sure sounds terrible though! ~ Here’s a visual of the stats to get the over-all look. And FYI, wikipedia is only a first step in looking at all the stats and data collected for me – I search all over, including the links you provided, which were already seen from a google search. I look all around – and all the lists vary. It’s how one interprets that data. And how the news can be spun…..(ahemmm)
The below visual can at least put things in perspective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Infant_Mortality_Rate_World_map.png
What is more alarming is that our infant mortality rates are skewed hugely by the fact that the higher melanin content community in this nation has a MUCH higher infant mortality rate than all the other groups of people (per your vary own CIA link, as well as others). This skewes the data for this nation to a large degree. What are the reasons for such a high infant mortality within the black community?? That is what seriously needs to be addressed. I believe it’s more due to culture than to any “lack of healthcare”. But that’s an entirely different can of worms.
There is pplenty of free health care available. Just ask the millions of illegal immigrants that come here to get it….
I don’t make your point for you (regarding lack of insurance as the “cause”). If that were so, than I suppose I could say you also make my point for me regarding the FREE prenatal…. As I stated earlier:: there is plenty of free care available, though that system is being swamped by millions of non-citizens. A mandatory, national health plan is NOT the answer. All that will do is actually decrease care, and put our care in the hands of some pencil pusher in D.C. Last stats I saw was that 78% of Americans are satisfied with their health care. Forcing a national plan on us is un-American ~ whatever happened to freedom of choice? The over-whelming majority of “uninsured” choose that. They’re young and don’t see the need to pay that out, and are basically “playing the odds” that nothing will happen to them. And even if something unforunate DID happen, they’re are still plenty of free services available. Let’s stick with freedom of choice. This is still America, so far….
Nationalized health care isn’t needed and the majority of Americans don’t want it. Mostly because they know the feds will only create an over-bloated, beurocratic nightmare, and mess things up. It’s what they do best. lol
If there were an abundance of free PREVENTATIVE care then 18000 people (the number is now 22000 btw) would not die every year due to lack of insurance. The free care you speak of is emergency care often sought late (meaning more expense at best).
You have shown that you really don’t know much about national health care other than the usual talking points.
You proceed from your ideology to conclusion. Ask yourself this:
What evidence could change your mind?
the answer is nothing.
…What would change my mind?
…very simple. Statistics that showed that inhabitants of countries with national health care were worse off than those living here.
I must be one of those selected to die already, even though my medicines are hardly the same level of national drain that would seem to generate such concern.
http://sobiprotest.blogspot.com/
I’m already dying so Obama can play benevolent leader.
Obama is right. It makes no sense to buy another month or two for someone who is terminally ill.
All people have the right to be helped. Just like freewilly already said. No-one is able to tell how long somebody still “has”. 2 or 3 months can change to 20 to 30 years.
Some Plains Indians had the custom of stripping old people (and widows) of clothing and leaving them on the prairie to die. They must be Obamaites before their time.
ever read The Giver by Lois Lowry?
who does this government think they are that they should be the ones to decide who gets treatment and who gets to die?
insanity!!
Actually, he has a point. Conservatives use the same argument ( I do as well) Law of diminishing returns. If you’re at 90 percent of auto efficiency why spend 99X to go the last 10 percent. And the broken hip will probably kill Granny before the cancer. Hey, its a good thing! Now we can drink, smoke and act like normal folk!
I have just been listening to “him” on the AARP town hall meeting. I had submitted a question and the same question was asked by many. When it came time to answer his denial was so weak and his demenor changed instantly. You can tell when he is
lying or not sure.
I am very worried about this health care reform and I is being said he has a “exit plan” for us seniors.
I am happy with my insurance coverage now as it is.
Completely agree with what Free Willie said above.
Classic. gonna try to translate into latin
Here are the sources:
us ranks 29th in infant mortality
From the CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db09.htm
Second Worst in the developed world:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/parenting/05/08/mothers.index/
Behind CUBA!
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
1800 deaths per year:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/healthcare/2002-05-22-insurance-deaths.htm
You know what? They are probably including all the abortions in that infant mortality rate!!!!!! And under O’Vomit it will only get worse
Some of the ways infant mortality is measured in the U.S. that differ:
1. Other countries don’t do the pre-mature procedures as we do in the U.S.; we have an incredible amount of children born pre-term. Their death rate is automatically higher.
2. Foreign countries don’t do so well either, but they count the children that would have been born prematurely in the US as stillborn, as they cannot provide life support for preemies.
Thought you could use the details since you manage to find so much raw data, but without giving it the scrutiny a statistician would:
1. Are samples random?
2. Are you comparing data correctly in a comparisons of proportions test as you develop your null hypothesis?
3. What is your alternate hypothesis and why do you measure it that way, is your P actully complimentry to your Q when you run a standardized test before you find the integral to deterimine a 95% confidence interval?
Other countries of the world don’t report the same way we do with other catagories. But you’re so smart, you’ll find them for yourself, and of course deny them or withhold them from the conversation.
dulce et decorum est hostem cogere pro patria (sua) mori
“the higher melanin content community in this nation has a MUCH higher infant mortality rate than all the other groups of people (per your vary own CIA link, as well as others).”
That same group of people have less insurance than the national average. You make my point for me.
Look at places which went from no free prenatal care to free prenatal care and you will see a drastic reduction in infant mortality. In West Virginia,
the infant mortality rate dropped from 3.5 to .7
http://www.nap.edu/openbook/0309085187/html/134.html
That is no accident.
We’re second to last in the developed world; that’s close enough
Where exactly do you get your statistics? I agree with the other poster, that there is plenty of free or low-cost care out there. It is amazing what the people who can’t afford healthcare CAN afford. I am a medical professional, and I’ve seen it. It’s absolutely disgusting.
How much of someone else’s income do you think you’re entitled to? NOTHING is free. It costs over $100,000 dollars to go to medical school, so how in the world could healthcare be free? You are the uneducated one, without a doubt.
http://www.freemarketcure.com
Ask the numerous Canadians who either come here for adequate medical care and treatment–or can’t afford it and have to get in a long line, sometimes longer than their lifeline.
The statistics already do.
“the higher melanin content community in this nation has a MUCH higher infant mortality rate than all the other groups of people (per your vary own CIA link, as well as others).â€
“That same group of people have less insurance than the national average. You make my point for me.”
That same group also has a higher incidence of drug use and the lack of a supporting father/family structure. So your point isn’t made. All you can say is that members of the community with “higher melanin content” take more drugs, less family support during pregnancy and have a higher rate of infant deaths.
Bestowing insurance on a drug addict won’t prevent infant death. Maybe they need to get clean *BEFORE* they get pregnant. Then maybe the child will have a chance.
We measure infant mortality different in the U.S. versus other nations.
You’re comparing apples and oranges.
We count many other things as infant mortality because we measure more.
Healthcare in this country isn’t what you say it is. It’s frankly the best in the world.
I should know, I used to work the ER and the surgical Ward at Rush Loyola. We get plenty of people from around the world coming here for heart surgery for starters. I remember many wealthy Arabs, Europeans, Canadians, South Americans coming here and paying for their surgeries.
At the same time, I watched my grandfather get new experimental surgery that cost well over 60K – and he didn’t pay a dime, medicare did.
So you’re full of crap, AV.
We the taxpayers paid my granpa’s shortfall from his insurance.
So the wealthy and the regular taxpayer, like me, pay for this. And you want to raise taxes more?
Good luck making it work. What you “progressives” have done for Detroit, you’ll do for healthcare.
Translate this you turbo-douche: Mulus sempre sarcinam portat.
Diaboli, please inform yourself. You are looking very stupid, because you obviously DO NOT know how infant mortality statistics are compiled worldwide. The US does NOT have below Third World rates of infant mortality. You can only get away with that nonsense with people who are an uninformed as you are.
So who makes the decision that it’s only “another month or two”? My Mom was given 4 months to live that was 5 years ago and she’s still going strong. A little slower than before but still has the same “can do” attitude. Under your plan the necessary procedure would have been denied and she would have died.
If you have no value for life, that’s your business. But don’t impose your beliefs on me or mine by enabling the government to decide when, where or how I will get what medical services I need. Bugger off with your program of “convenience of the state” agenda.
Not true, some countries measure life from conception (or x months in the womb) and abortions do count as infant mortality.
Die Rechte Ecke is correct, and you, Diaboli, are UNINFORMED.
Signed,
A medical professional
Who are you to tell me what care I can get if I’m paying for it? How just is it to take money from me to pay for someone else’s care, while denying care to me and letting me die? This is TOTALITARIAN, Hitleresque nonsense.